Way back in 2003, I found an advice column by Dan Savage to a young gay Asian man. Dan’s been in the press like crazy lately with the ‘It Gets Better’ campaign and the Rick Santorum ‘I dare you to f*** with us’ campaign. I greatly admire him.

I wasn’t crazy about the advice given though — so, here’s the original column, and then my advice following it…

Savage Love

An advice column By Dan Savage Washington City Paper February 2, 2001

I go to an Ivy League college and, after a long bout of being alone, I decided to hook up.  I ended up going into the online chat rooms at Gay.com and — lo and behold! — there were many gay guys from my school online.  I was really excited — until I started talking to them.  I am Asian, you see, and though I think I’m pretty stable and have a decent body, Gay.com has been a very bad experience for me.  The moment I tell them I’m Asian, it’s “Sorry, I’m not into Asians.  ‘Bye.”  I don’t think I’ll ever go online again.

– Lonely Gay Loser

Yes, it hurts when someone rejects you for your race — just as it hurts to be rejected for your age, weight, gender, or dick size.  But what can you do?  Everyone has an absolute right to reject anyone for any reason at all, however unfair or arbitrary the reason may seem to the rejected party.  We can’t say, “That’s not fair, you have to fuck me!” when someone tells us to buzz off because of our race, weight or gender.  I assume you’ve rejected guys — you can’t be attracted to all men, correct?  Well, your reasons for rejecting a particular guy may feel just as hurtful to him as “I’m not into Asians” feels to you.

But there are ways to meet guys without hearing “I’m not into Asians.”  First, get out of the house.  When you walk out of your house into a gay bar, for instance, all the guys who aren’t attracted to Asians can see that you’re Asian, and they’re not going to waste your time approaching you.  When you’re at home and online, however, people can’t see you, and people who aren’t attracted to Asians may chat you up.  If you are going to meet people online, you can avoid chatting with guys who aren’t into Asians by letting guys know you’re Asian from the start.  “Anyone can post a profile at Gay.com, and it’s best to be upfront about who you are and what you’re up to,” advises Jeff Bennett, Gay.com’s co-founder.  “Letting people know who you are will filter out some of the negative vibes you’ve been getting.”  Call yourself “IvyLeagueAsianBoy” when you go online to chat and I promise you’ll find an Asian-loving fag to make brown puddles with in no time at all.

– Dan Savage

Advice for the Advice Columnist

Dear Dan,

I don’t think your response is too bad. It’s well-meaning at least. The advice to “get out of the house” is probably the best part.

But LGL’s complaint about racism on the internet is a valid one.

And I hate the kind of response that you gave. I get it and have seen it all the tiime. When you tell someone about a racist experience you’ve experienced, and the other person tries to explain it, or justify it. As if we haven’t already thought out the dozens of excuses for prejudice.

And while most types of discrimination are hurtful or harmful, racism has its own flavours.

It’s true that LGL sent his complaint to an advice columnist asking him advice. But asking him step into the shoes of the racist or ignorant and see it from their perspective? Blah. I don’t agree.

And he never said everyone has to fuck him. Or fuck all of us Asians. He pointed out a shitty racist unfriendly place for him to be. I’m not sure we should defend it.

The idea that “everyone has an absolute right to reject anyone for any reason at all” is a response to the demand that “everyone has an absolute right to have sex with anyone else for any reason at all”. I don’t see that demand being made.

I think what he was asking for was hope and comfort, and without knowing it, perhaps this: to be treated with respect and decency. And that means to me that if you’re not attracted to someone, you can still treat them as a human being, and with the kindness that I hope you would wish to be treated with as well.

You are right that getting out of the house and not using chat-sites might be the best way to get around this though. Another way is to put up a photo of yourself on your profile so that it’s clear what you look like. Then you don’t have to put “Asian” in the title, which really is kind of reductive and sad, that in the currency of gay sex and relationships, race is the most important marker.

I think the best advice is: buck up, hold your head up high, and go on and get ‘em, tiger! – but at the same time acknowledging that racism is out there, and it sucks.

– Andy

(And now from 2011, I’d add to that advice Dan’s own words: It Gets Better)

I wrote this piece for RICEPAPER magazine’s the SEX [-y/ual/ualized] issue” published in Spring 2002. It aimed to examine Asian sexuality as a whole rather than just Gay Asian sexuality.

You slide out of your mother’s sex, oblivious to her pain, and covered with the memory of your father’s sex inside that cavern nine months before – give or take a little whether you’re premature – pounding your clenched knuckles out into the world saying let me out let me out – or a bit late, wanting a bit more of that embryonic pillow, a touch more shut-eye.

The years afterwards fly by without too much importance until the body’s chemistry signals it to change into a new form. You get acne and oily skin and wonder years later why people insist that as an Asian you have a perfect complexion. Then the harder part, and softer ones too. You become man. You become woman. You become adult, nearly. Biologically, yes. Old enough to make a few babies yourself no matter what society says and how much longer marriages and childbirth are delayed.

The question (for now at least, not the only question, just one of the questions but not a bad one to focus on) is: how do you get it? How do you go about getting it?

You won’t even try to go about defining what ‘it’ is.

First, check out your lineage. Were your parents the kind that never talked about it? Did they ever show physical affection in front of you? Did they do ballroom dancing in the living room and cha-cha-cha in the bedroom? Make the bedsprings creak? Were they actually having a lot more sex than you ever knew about? Sorry. I know you didn’t want to think about that. Especially if you pictured it.

But it is an important consideration. A happy marriage can be a good model for a happy partnership which might include good sex. Feuding parents might mean you have brutal distant sex filled with fears of betrayal and abandonment. Horny parents might mean you’re comfortable with your body and you might be an early bloomer yourself. Shy parents might mean it might take you forever to get it. You might not even know that you want it.

A close family might mean your need for it gets replaced by this big kind of Asian Brady Bunch feeling and you don’t really have time to think much about it, because you’re permanently locked into the role of Marcia, Jan, Cindy, Greg, Peter or Bobby. Only Asian, like Margaret Cho’s family on TV except all the same race and maybe a bit funnier in real life.* Or it might mean a lack of space and opportunity since when are you going to get it when you’ll live at home until you’re 30 and maybe you share a room.

If your family is too close, it might drive you away. It might make you become that bad girl or boy they fear, you delving into it like a teenager into a mosh-pit. You differentiate yourself from your parents by giving into something wholly different from their chaste worlds. You try perfume but give it up, hoping you’ll smell of the sex you’re having, the scent a little different with each partner. There might be a few black sheep in the family. Lesbian grand-aunt. Playboy uncle. Wild-child cousin. The relation that became a sex worker and no one talks about. The other one that moved away and has umpteen kids. The one with the record for number of marriages and divorces. They are all parts of a painting of possibilities, their genes and yours might be the same, you might get it the same way they do.

Did you get fucked up by the kids at school? Perhaps. If they thought you’d get laid at all, they tried to match you up with the only other Asian in your class. You’d look great with Jimmy/Carol! You were the funny man, the joker girl, the best friend, the class brain. Kids didn’t flirt with you, you didn’t flirt with them. Early sex is for trashy white/brown/black kids anyways. Anyways, by now, you’ve gotten over this. Maybe.

Put your hand to your heart. OK. Woman? If so, that’s a bit harder. Woman pick up reputations like a static-charged TV screen attracts dust. If you want it, you’re going to be have to be either more brazen than most people, or much more discreet. Women aren’t allowed to want it, really. You’re sexual without being aggressive, flirtatious without being hungry. Not like men, penises with gray matter attached.

You’ll probably get it through the romantic route. Perhaps a careful negotiation with someone that you decide you like. Maybe you’ll learn each other’s bodies like favourite picture books you had as kids. You lick the drawing of the ice cream cone just to see if it has flavour.

If you’re attracted to women, it might be easier. Tender. Nurturing. Meet your lover at a dinner party thrown by a mutual friend. Or at the fruit and vegetable co-op, the bookstore, the women’s night at the gay club, a political meeting. Lesbians aren’t outwardly as sexual (not like the ones in straight men’s imaginations) but close those bedroom doors and bang. Baby, you’ve got it.

If you’re attracted to men. Well, men are nothing but trouble. Do you go for an Asian guy? Your parents might love that. You might even love it too, having figured out that for you, love comes from sharing histories, having things in common, understanding each other. Men are so inexplicable, why make it even harder by choosing someone a little different. Or maybe you just like that smooth skin and jet-black hair. Mmmmm.

Do you go for a white guy? There are a lot of them. Do you have to avoid the ones that have a reputation for going for Asian women, the ones with fantasies of dragon ladies, geisha girls, anatomically flexible Thai bar girls? The ones your girlfriends pointed out to each other at university and said watch out. You go out on a date. You find it slightly suspicious that his favourite movie is ‘the Joy Luck Club’ and he knows not to douse his meal with soy sauce. You’d find that cute if he did that.

Maybe somewhere down the line, you’ve already gotten it, but you want more of it. You’re in a relationship already but the heat has been turned down, past medium, lower than simmer, it’s barely on at all. You can touch your finger to the burner and not scald your skin. That could be the time for an affair, complicated and careful work like an advanced bonsai course: a lot of waiting, a bit of trimming, wondering if what you’e doing will turn into the right form. If it does, good. You’ve got it. Dangerously.

Put your hand to your heart. Man? OK. What are you going to do? Who are going to go for? How much do you listen to your parents anyways? Have you considered if you’re attracted to people on the basis of their race? Do you go for Asians, whites, or others (see above)? Or does it not matter? How can race not matter? Your whole life, people have treated you differently on that basis. How can it not slide over to dangerous sexual matters?

Did you absorb those stereotypes? Do you consider yourself less handsome for the shade of your skin? That the images of public figures that you’ve seen who look like you are classical musicians, kung-fu masters and TV chefs. Why isn’t Brad Pitt Asian? Why did you get stuck with this body that seems so slight in comparison with those other, bigger races? If Asian men are suppose to be so sexless, why are there billions of people in China?**

Regardless of race or gender, if you want to get it, you have to know that you want it. Be confident. Be obsessed even. Not too obsessed, not so you start to leer and grunt at inappropriate occasions, but enough to observe what’s going on about you, to notice what works and what doesn’t work, when a direct approach is going to get you the prize, or when you have to be more circumspect.

Listen. If you really want it, maybe you should consider being a gay male. Not all gay men get it, and gay asian men have a few of their own trees fallen in a storm across a highway when you want to get to Memphis. But yes, gay men can get a lot of it, if they want. It’s an odd trade-off between the pleasure of the senses and social equality, but some don’t mind it. You’ll have to contend with the same things straight people do – stereotypes, racism – or maybe even more. The gay sexual economy rates Asians pretty low. You might even have to make sure you’re in the right geographical location. I mean, if you’re in a small town in the middle of the Canada and you’re the only Chinese family for miles, it’s not like people are going to see you and think va-va-voom. They’ll think: restaurants, laundries, corner stores. Or maybe they’ll think: immigration, difference, strangers. You’ll probably have to move somewhere bigger.

It’s true. People get used to people in larger numbers. For a city to love Asians (and that includes sexually), there should be a lot of Asians. It’s likely that in between that stage of one Asian family and a whole population, there will be growing pains. Maybe best not to be there during that period. But it’s like food, which is rather a bit like sex, the same vocabulary of appetite, satiation, sensory overload, indulgence. Say there’s one crappy Thai restaurant, it can serve anything it wants because no one knows the difference. Then say there’s a few more restaurants, a bit of competition, a few more seats, more people familiar with lemon grass and fluffy catfish. Then suddenly there’s a craze. People are wild for Thai food, they can’t get enough, connoisseurs appear. Sometimes, it’s just about familiarity. I guess you could always just go to Asia to get it. I mean not only are Asians attracted to other Asians because they’re surrounded by them, but that extra caché, that smell of Norte Americanismo might make you even more the centre of attention. Be among your people, and be different at the same time. Have your cake, or custard tart, or Malaysian steam cake, or mango pudding. Eat it too.

There’s always bisexuality. It’s a bit more complicated than it sounds, but why not double your chances for a date on a Saturday night?

If you’re still not getting it, maybe you should lower your expectations. Or your standards. Become promiscuous. Tell people that the word ‘promiscuous’ is going out of style and has been replaced by the word ‘prolific.’ Is there something so bad about it? As long as you’re safe and don’t get nasty bug-a-boos and it doesn’t interfere with your ability to love, really love, someone else. What’s the problem?

Of course, all differences should be respected, and maybe you don’t really care about whether you get it or not. And that’s OK.

Or maybe you get it as often and as much as you want. Forget you ever read this.

*This is not meant as a dig at Margaret who I love! She is da best comic if you didn’t know that. However, the writers and producers of her show made it kind of not-funny-enough by not letting her control it, and my family all thought it was funny that because there aren’t a lot of visible Asian actors that her family were all-mix-up, a Japanese actor, a Chinese one, a Korean lead…

**I don’t know if Anthony Wong stole this line from someone else, but I certainly stole it from him.

I wrote this article for the magazine CRANK about internet racism in December 2001. It was my first attempt to put my thoughts down on the issue, and I was happy with the way it turned out. I aimed it at a general audience not necessarily familiar with gay internet stuff:

New social relations. 21st century modes of communication. Forces for social change. That’s what they say about the internet… In my world —that of a gay urban guy living in Sydney, Australia— what I mostly see is gay men using internet sites to look for sex — as well as friendships, relationships and love, maybe in that order. On www.gaydar.com.au, a site that is leading the way, men-seeking-men put up photos of themselves (jpgs) in various states of undress along with a description of who they are and who they’re after. Last week on this site, there were over 200 new members from Sydney alone. My guess is that urban centres from London to Vancouver claim thousands of members in each city.

What interests me at the moment is racism on the net: sexual racism that is – how people treat each other according to race while looking for sex or dates. It’s an interesting confluence of issues. The way we relate to each other sexually involves fundamental questions about self-esteem, the social structures in which we’ve been raised, and how we love and are loved. Discussions about race touch on some of the same issues, and both are topics that inflame nations, cities and communities. And while it may sound flippant, I also admit to self-interest. As an Asian gay guy, the more racism there is, the less sex I get.

The gay world, like the straight world, has developed a ranking system of characteristics that are sexually appealing. Along with weight, fitness level, height, masculinity and more, race is considered to be an acceptable factor to take into account. I’d say that Asian guys are at the bottom of the sexual totem pole, but First Nations and aboriginal guys might have an even tougher time. Of course, the reverse is true: there are men who specifically eroticize others on the basis of race. Guys who chase Asian men are called Rice Queens. But I’ve only got 1500 words for this article…

Around the world in gay bars and meeting places, white men are found to be more attractive than men from other races. If I walk into a predominantly white gay bar in the U.S.A., most of the white guys will not be interested. But if a white guy walks into a bar in Asia or Latin America, most men will be. While there may be economic factors thrown into this, it’s a disturbing dynamic. Some people might not think this is true, but those of us who have experienced it know it is true. Just ask us sometime, or ask any of the many white gay men who travel regularly to other countries where their sexual currency suddenly rises like the value of gold after a stock market crash.

Hey, honesty is one thing but how did it become acceptable or permissible to advertise one’s racism? Would they think it’s OK to put ‘no blacks’ in a job ad? Are they unthinking, inept or just racist? The broad construction of the category ‘Asian’ includes tiny and big men, round and square faces, fats and fems, skinny guys and gym queens. How can you eliminate an entire race of people from your sexual radar? Or is it that the gay scene has actually become deracinated? So that the category of Asian is not a race but a negative characteristic, like bad breath.

I wrote an ad in which I described myself without identifying myself as Asian. They’d figure it out when I sent them a jpeg photo. I received this:

Hi! And before you start to delete this email because you see the word asian. No I am not campy, not short and not pimpled faced and not tiny below and not have a poor command of the English language: some of the most prevalent myths that most white gay men like to think of and love to stereotype us. If still interested, please send a reply. Otherwise, stick to the myths.

Ouch. You’d have to be a masochist to think this is attractive. My reply:

Hey, why so defensive? Did I say something wrong? While it seems you are making sure I don’t stereotype you as Asian, all I can tell from this response to my ad is that you ARE asian, cause that’s the only thing you say. Maybe tell me something about yourself?

However, I’d inadvertently signed this with my real name. This is what I received in return:

You are as asian as me…

True enough.

Another e-mail that I received responded to a later ad that I posted up with a photo of myself:

Do you like asians? If you do, I will send you my homepage. Just reply to this message please. Regards, Z

I replied:

I don’t think you should ever have to ask someone whether they like asians or not, just send them your website link and people can decide for themselves whether they like you, not because you’re asian, but because you’re you.

Can you tell that I always wanted to write my own advice column?

I asked first if you like asians because I have also received rude replies from other people when I first wrote to them. Anyway, thank you very much for your reply.

Ah, poor Z. I can imagine it happening.

Time to strike back. Pete, an office colleague, was surfing a site on work-time and found a very cute local boy, Brad. In Brad’s ad was: no fats, no fems, no Asians.

‘Move over, Pete,’ I said, sliding into his chair.

‘Oh no, what are you going to say? The message will show as coming from me!’ Pete cried out in panic and despair (that he might lose a shag).

My workmate was walking by and saw your ad and says this: ‘Do you have to advertize your racism? If an Asian guy replies to your ad, can’t you just politely decline as you would anybody else that you’re not interested in?’

The reply:

I’m not racist. I’ve got lots of Asian friends. I just don’t like the look sexually of Asian guys.

I discussed our reply options with Pete. He was disappointed at possibly losing a shag but willing to play along. I wanted to ask Brad what his Asian friends thought of his ad or if ‘no blacks’ would look the same to him as ‘no asians’. But Pete was more conciliatory. He wrote back saying that I didn’t necessarily say that Brad was racist but that his ad appeared to be racist, and was unnecessarily so. He added:

P.S. I think you’re hot.

I got angrier with the next ad I found. Not that I was looking for it, it just popped up in front of me: here’s your Big Mac, would you like racism with that? My response was to an ad for two young handsome guys looking for a third.

Just saw your ad on gaydar.com.au – do you know how it feels to be Asian and read something like “no asians please.” Probably not, since you’ve probably not experienced racism all your life, and again on the gay scene. It reminds you that no matter what you look like, short or tall, square or round jaw, that some people don’t want to even look at you because of your race. Even if you feel this way, you don’t have to advertise it. You’ve already said that people have to send you photos. If Asian guys send you a photo, just say “no, not interested” or don’t even respond. I’m trying to say this in the nicest way possible, but do you have to slap an Asian guy in the face every time they open your ad. Because that’s what you’re doing: Change it.

I expected either nothing or an aggressive response but instead received the following:

thanks for your message mate. It is food for thought and never really thought about it like that. We don’t have a racist bone in our bodies, it is purely a matter of sexual preference. Since you have been so diplomatic and polite, my good deed for the day is to change the ad immediately. Have a good night!

In the meantime, the guy that Pete was writing to changed his ad too, even though Pete still hasn’t got a date with him. Yeah! Social change one by one, I’m up for it. I’ll make the world a safe and more shaggable place for guys like me.

Way back in 2003, Tim and I put our heads together to try to figure out how we could not only talk about the issue of sexual racism but create change. His idea was the simple banner ad. My idea was more of a direct response: try to make it easier for people to respond directly to offensive ads…

It became clear that Tim had the better idea! Still, it was worth a try. Here’s the text from the original posting:

Show someone you care! Well, show someone that you’ve noticed their ad is worded (perhaps unintentionally) in way that is unnecessarily hurtful. We’ve found that webmasters and companies don’t want to take up this issue, so it’s really up to us. Back to the grassroots. On this page, you’ll find a few model letters you can use. You can just cut and paste it into a message from you.

The aim of this page is to make it easy for gay asian guys and our friends to try to stop internet racism.

Hey, this is grassroots activism. Spread the word. Let’s get regular users of gay meeting sites on the internet to respond to every ad that we see that is racist and hurtful and create a culture that is caring and supportive (and where we can all get shags easier).

This ain’t only about asians. I’m aiming to have form letters up for black guys, latino guys, positive guys – you request it (and maybe supply me with the text?) and I’ll put it up.

INSTRUCTIONS: For now, just cut and paste over the letter you want to send, and send away.

At the moment, you’re going to have to send this from your own address. I know that’s hard – to stand up to racism – I get tired and sick of it myself – but I encourage you to do it – send it from your account with your real name. What are they going to do anyways?

Some of the places where you’ll find these ads: gaydar.com.au, gay.com, aol.com – you can tell me other places.

Let’s get started!

To start off with: my letter to you. You can alter it to send to other friends who will join our campaign!

Hi Friend,

I was talking with friends about the issue of racism on the internet – and in particular racist ads on gaydar and other services that say: no Asians or no GAMs.

I decided that we should do something about it! No one else is going to do it for us, so if we want the situation to change, I think we have to start acting on it. I think that most of the guys who do these ads don’t know how racist or hurtful they are being, so a gentle but firm e-mail will help.

I’ve drafted a few different letters and I encourage you to do the following:

1. Change the letter if you’d like, so that it feels like something that you could have written yourself.

2. Find a way so that you can easily forward it when you want to. If you use outlook express, you could keep a copy in your “draft” in-box. Or you could send the message to yourself, so that you can later “forward” it to others. Or just bookmark this page and cut and paste letters from there.

3. Whenever you come across an ad that says “No GAMs” or “No Asians”, send them the e-mail. You don’t have to be Asian to do this – some of my white friends have been helping to educate guys on the net, and questioning their racism. By the way, we’ve already gotten a number of guys to change their ads. So this works!

Write to me if you have any comments! And please forward on this e-mail to all of your friends who you think would support this campaign. Let’s go for it. Let’s change the world.

Kind of an angry response

Hi

Saw your ad on gaydar when I was surfing the net tonight.

Lots of gay asian guys like me use this site on a regular basis. We read messages like:

• I am not into gams, fems, fats or pensioners.
• No gams
• Not into gams, pretentious guys, fakers
• No asians, sorry.

I’m a pretty confident guy but ads like yours still hurt. I wonder how they affect young guys coming into out for the first time and surfing the net. Some young 18 year old in Taiwan or New Jersey who finds out that people consider his race equivalent to something like bad breath.

It IS perfectly acceptable for people to have different tastes but putting a sexual preference based on race in a public space contributes to racism in the gay community, racism which affects all of us – it hurts Asian guys and white guys too.

Maybe consider putting what you’re interested in, rather than what you’re not interested in, i.e. “looking for masculine guys” rather than “no femmes”.

But if someone answers your ad that you’re not interested in, just say “sorry, you’re not my type” or “sorry, I’m not interested”. Or just ignore the message. Treat Asian guys like you would treat white guys that you’re not attracted to.

You’re not attracted to Asian guys. Fine. Don’t remind us everyone we surf the web that people won’t even look at us because of our race, or equate us with “fems” or some other supposedly undesirable characteristic just because of our race.

Thanks

Short and polite:

Hi

On the streets, in the workplace, in the locker room, in homes, there are norms created of what is acceptable and not acceptable to say. If people around you make faggot jokes and derogatory comments about gay men and lesbians, it encourages other people to do the same thing. Do we want to hear or see or read the phrase “no faggots” or even “no gays”?

So what’s the difference with writing “No Asians” or “No GAMs” in a personal ad profile. There are so many ads that include this phrase that men think it’s OK, and they forget how hurtful it is.

I might not agree with you if that’s what you think, but if you don’t write it in your profile, at least I don’t have to read it, and it doesn’t encourage other men to write the same thing.

What we say makes it OK for others to say the same thing.

I’d politely request that you make the small change on your ad to reflect the above. You can always ignore e-mails from men who you’re not interested in!

Thanks

A Non-Asian supporter

Hi

I noticed your ad says you’re not interested in Asians.

I’m not Asian myself but I’m hoping to convince you to alter your ad slightly.

I’m not saying you should or have to sleep with or communicate with Asian guys. It’s just that stating your prejudice in a public way is pretty hurtful.

If someone who you’re not interested in sends you an e-mail, why not either ignore them, or be polite, no matter what their race?

How about if you saw on a regular basis (like Asian guys do when looking at gay personal ads on the internet) messages like “no gays” or “no homosexuals”? How about if you’re a 17 year old kid coming out and you find out that guys won’t even look at you because of your race, no matter if you’re tall or short, whether you were born in Asia or North America, whether you’re a bodybuilder or a swimmer? Do you want to be the one to teach him that lesson?

Or, whether you mean it or not, to slap the face of every gay asian guy who reads your ad?

If you’re concerned about physical appearance, ask for a photo.

Changing a few words in your ad isn’t a difficult thing but it would make gay internet sites a lot more friendly

Thanks

Short and pointed:

Is it really so hard?

• To request photos of people responding to your ads
• To politely respond to an ad saying you’re not interested
• To ignore someone you’re not interested in

RATHER THAN

Stating publicly that you don’t want to receive e-mails from someone because of their race

Please change your ad. It may be “being honest” but it’s hurtful and unnecessary.

So, is all racism the same? What about reverse racism? Is it the same when an Asian guy says “no whites” or when he says “no Asians.” Should we be offended anytime someone phrases something in the negative?

A white guy who says “No Asians”, an Asian guy who says “No Whites”, an Asian guy who says “No Asians”, a white guy who says “Asians only”. Same? Equal? Different?

It’s tricky business, this racism stuff. And when I talk about the issue with folks, people are always going “well, what about this?” and “what about that?” So, let’s get some thoughts down here on the page and see if I can make some sense.

You say that you don’t want guys on the net to write “No Asians”. What about an Asian guy who writes “No Asians”?

I still think it sucks.

On the other hand, I’m more likely to be disturbed by the white guy who does it because it fits in with a larger picture of systemic racism, sexual and otherwise. He’s more of a perpetrator of that racism. Whereas the Asian guy is probably a bit of a victim because he’s absorbed that racism, and self-hatred.

What about an Asian guy who says he’s only looking for other Asians?

I know that some politicized Asian guys in the USA have gone through phases where they’d rather be with other Asian men or other men of colour as a way of affirming their own identity. A way of saying “I’m proud of who I am and proud enough to actively look for other guys of my own race to date.” They might be tired of dating white guys who don’t understand race issues. I personally try not to limit myself and hope that other people don’t – and I would consider an Asian guy who is only looking for other Asian guys as limiting himself.

What about white guys who are only looking for Asians?

Well, same thing really. It’s a limit. I do have lots of white friends who have preferences for Asian guys, but I do find that when white men are exclusively interested in Asian men (“rice queens”) that there is often (but not always) a bit of stereotyping or exoticization going on. I’m personally kind of uncomfortable with that.

How about HIV positive men looking only for other HIV positive guys?

I’m including discussion of this here because I think it touches upon the reasons why we want to be with each other sexually or emotionally. Sometimes it IS easier to be together with people who have a shared experience. So, some poz friends are going to want to have sex without worrying about infecting someone else, or because they can have unprotected sex that way. Some poz friends are going to want to be with other men who understand what they’ve been through – pretty heavy emotional stuff, and sometimes physical stuff as well. Because of this, I hope that HIV negative guys aren’t offended by seeing an ad that says “HIV positive guys only.” I don’t really agree with a sense of entitlement that we should be able to have sex with anyone we want to at all times (in yer dreams, mate!).

But why is it bad then for HIV negative men to want to only be with other HIV negative men?

Because I think it’s less thought through, and that it’s probably based on prejudices and fears and misunderstandings on what it is like to be HIV positive right now. There is a difference between wanting to be with other people to share an experience of difficulty than because you share privilege. We get together at gay dance parties and events to celebrate who we are, and because we’ve been through a lot of crap. Straight people don’t need to do this, and I would find it offensive for people to have a event that explicitly celebrated heterosexuality. Because most events do anyways!

Aren’t you getting off topic?

I don’t think so.

So is it bad for white men to want to have sex with other white men?

I think so. I think it’s a limitation. And I’d want to turn the question and say, why would white men want to have sex with only white men? Do you really think this is just about “personal preference” and is free from all the things that society tells us – all the racist things. Recent newstory – the study of little kids playing with dolls, and neither the white kids nor the brown kids wanted to play with the brown dolls. One of the little kids said something like “Yuck! Get that away from me.” We learn lessons pretty early on. What lessons are we still carrying with us?

Oh, that’s ridiculous. Is this racism as bad as you say it is? My friends aren’t racist. In fact, they like having sex with men who aren’t white.

Well, that’s great. People’s experiences of whether a gay community or gay people are racists are very different. I would propose, however, that people who aren’t white are going to notice different things. And that their opinions should be respected.

Is it worse to see “no whites” or “no asians” on an internet dating site?

I do think that in cities like Sydney that it would really unusual to see an ad that says “no whites”. And even if there was an ad like that, it wouldn’t contribute to an overall atmosphere of racism. It doesn’t feed into it, like the phrase “no asians” which makes the general community more accepting of casual racism. However, it would be different in an Asian city like Singapore or Tokyo to read this, and a white guy reading that over there would probably feel a great deal of hurt too.

I was chatting to my pal Tim and getting quite overzealous and pleased with myself about making the above differentiation – that one form of racism can be worse than the other in a certain context. And then he needed to point out to me that even so, both forms are racism and both are bad. And he’s right.

Why are you talking to yourself?

Hmm. Good question. Anyone else got something to say?

(from April 2003)

Back in the first years of the campaign, we were trying to be pro-active and encourage others to be pro-active too.

I saw an ad from a young couple that included the phrase: No Asians.

My e-mail was short and a bit aggressive starting with: do you know how it feels to be Asian and read something like “no asians please.”

The reply: thanks for your message mate. It is food for thought and never really thought about it like that. We don’t have a racist bone in our bodies, it is purely a matter of sexual preference. Since you have been so diplomatic and polite, my good deed for the day is to change the ad immediately. Have a good night!

Success! I was v. pleased.

Another one from the archives.This book review that I wrote for Fridae was one of the most talked about articles of their year. Taken all together, I think that the book, the review and the discussion make up a pretty interesting picture of a complex set of issues on inter-racial dating, shagging and stereotypes.

A review of “The Rice Queen Diaries”

The comments are diverse: intelligent ones, mean ones directed to the author of the book, and to me, complete misinterpretations of what was said – but all in all — interesting.

In 2005, I wrote an article for http://www.fridae.com, the Asian gay and lesbian news portal and personal ad site. It was in response to an article about racism against Asian men in the gay community which I thought was both outdated and unhelpful.

The article that I wrote in response to was called RQ: PQ

and here’s my response: New Stereotypes For A New Century

It created an unbelievable amount of response which was up in the forums at the time – a fascinating snap shot of white-asian gay relationships – and around the world (whereas my experience is mainly of Western cities). After so many years, I think the conversations would have been taken down. The article is still up though!

I thought this discussion on the SRS yahoo list was interesting enough to make into its own blog posting.

A question about ‘discernment’ and a damn fine answer from Tim.

The original posting:

Sexual attraction is shaped conciously by our mind through experience, preference and social conditioning of what is sexually desirable, but sexual magnetism is driven by chemical secretions generated from the frontal lobe cortex which controls sexual arousal and sexuality. Therefore sexual racism can not exist. There is only sexual discernment, which we are all entitled to. Sexual discernment is evident when our preferences (i.e. “I like waxed arses”) are motivated by sexual practices (i.e. “I like waxed arses because I love to rim”). There is a rational thought process that links physical attraction with certain sex acts. That’s fine.

But racism only occurs when sexual attraction is only aroused through misheld beliefs and stereotypes (i.e. “I only have sex with Asian/hispanic men because they have smooth arses and I love to rim.” OR “I don’t have sex with Asians because I’m a bottom boy and nips have little dicks.”) Which, of course, is not necessarily true. It is ignorant to exclude a race out of false beliefs – ” I am not attracted to Asian men because they are effeminate and bottom”. But this isn’t sexual racism, it’s just racism. Period. You can’t train your synaptic nerve response in your cerebral cortex to force yourself to be sexually attracted to a certain racial group…  Funnily enough, most racism felt by young Asian men in the gay community comes from Asians themselves. Asian men who have ‘white’ lovers or life partners feel superior to Asian men without Anglo lovers or friends. These Asian men use ‘white’ Australian lovers as a status symbol to boost their sexual desireability amoungst members of their own race or cultural group.  At the end of the day, nobody is going to have sex with people they are not attracted to. I am not going to have sex with an Asian guy based on the philosophy of multicultural inclusion just to improve the Asian mans’ self-esteem. I don’t sleep with men out of pity.

A response from timster:

Hi,

Thanks for the opportunity to rebut a bunch of ideas that I’ve been thinking about for a while. A bunch of what you’ve said is superficially sensible, but I think you’re operating on a set of mistaken assumptions which I’d like to tease apart.

In fact, proposition by proposition. Let’s go!

Sexual attraction is shaped conciously by our mind through experience, preference and social conditioning of what is sexually desirable, Sure, yep. With you so far.

> but sexual magnetism is driven by chemical secretions generated from the frontal lobe cortex which controls sexual arousal and sexuality.

Sure. But to separate those as distinct process is to create a false dichotomy where none exists. Attraction and arousal are linked. In my view, our experience plays a role in what arouses us, unless we suffer from some kind of brain damage. Anyway, carry on…

> Therefore sexual racism can not exist. There is only sexual discernment, which we are all entitled to. Woah, dobbin. How did we get there? There's a few missing steps in that argument. Because I'm a sweetheart, I'm going to let you carry on and assume that you'll pick up the point in a while...

Oh, hang on. Yes, we are all entitled to sexual discernment. Otherwise we’d be having sex with everyone and what kind of world would that be?! Hmm.

> Sexual discernment is evident when our preferences(i.e. "I like waxed arses") are motivated by sexual practices (i.e. "I like waxed arses because I love to rim"). Weird example, but sure.

> There is a rational thought process that links physical attraction with certain sex acts. That's fine. I think the gap I'm seeing is that a tiny amount of our thinking about sex is conscious and an even smaller amount is rational. There's a lot more that is based on "contextual conditioning", certain sensed patterns cause certain responses - this stuff is learned through exposure to an environment, but not conscious (or even consciously accessible) and certainly not rational.

Your whole argument seems to me to be about what is rational and what is silly, but it’s about what is conscious. The rest you relegate to brain chemistry (and make it therefore unalterable and unaffected by environment). But in fact, and there’s a wealth of research that agrees with me (check out Malcolm Gladwell’s “Blink” for a delightfully readable wander through this stuff), there’s a huge middle territory of embodied cognition that is learned (in that contextual sense), situated and alterable.

> But racism only occurs when sexual attraction is only aroused through misheld beliefs and stereotypes (i.e. "I only have sex with Asian/hispanic men because they have smooth arses and I love to rim." OR "I don't have sex with Asians because I'm a bottom boy and nips have little dicks.") Which, of course, is not necessarily true. Let me rephrase what you said to what I want you to say: "A person can only be called a racist, when sexual attraction is only aroused through misheld beliefs and stereotypes". I can agree with that. Calling someone a racist is a tough call.

But, as the members of this group have slowly led me to grasp, racism is experienced in situations with no actual racist present. Racism can be systemic, or cultural or inadvertent. From the point-of-view of the person subject to it, it doesn’t matter a damn. Racism can quite happily “occur” in a situation between two people with no actual racist in the room. Eerie, but true.

> It is ignorant to exclude a race out of false beliefs - " I am not attracted to Asian men because they are effeminate and bottom". But this isn't sexual racism, it's just racism. Period. Silly terminology issue. I use "sexual racism" to refer to situations where racism occurs in a sexually intimate or romantic situation. Yes, it's racism, it's also sexual racism. Period.

> You can't train your synaptic nerve response in your cerebral cortex to force yourself to be sexually attracted to a certain racial group...

I’ve had lots of email from and conversations with men who have, through environmental or experiential circumstances, found that their sexual taste broadening from just a focus on their own ethnic group to gradually encompass men from other places. Sometimes, guys who’veÂtravelled suddenly “noticed” that Asian guys (for instance) were hot,Âoften by travelling to somewhere like Cambodia or Vietnam. Then theyÂreturn home and suddenly there’s all these new faces on the streets — who’d been there all the time…

I have no idea if they’re training their “synaptic nerve response” or not, all I know is that desire is something which can grow to encompass a greater range. It seems to me that this situation is preferable and healthy.

> Funnily enough, most racism felt by young Asian men in the gay community comes from Asians themselves. Asian men who have 'white' lovers or life partners feel superior to Asian men without Anglo lovers or friends. These Asian men use 'white' Australian lovers as a status symbol to boost their sexual desireability amongst members of their own race or cultural group. Wow. That's one of those amazingly clueless generalisations I've heard people made but never actually saw. Thanks for expanding my experience.

I’m sure you’re making that statement based on actual situations you’ve seen or had related to you, and I’m not denying such situations occur or that racism against a group of people can certainly happen within that group as well as without it. But, how you can have the gall to observe that “most racism felt by young Asian men” is… well, anything you reckon really without being inside that experience or spending a lot of time very carefully studying it is… brave and amazingly insensitive, frankly.

From what I hear, racism against Asian folk in Australia is alive and well both in the broader community and in the gay community and it manifests in lots of ways both overt and subtle, personal and systemic and cultural, deliberate and inadvertent. To dismiss the reality of that experience as irrelevant and claim that racism is primarily perpetrated by Asian men on Asian men might give you comfort, but it does little to change the reality of people’s actual lives for the better.

At the end of the day, nobody is going to have sex with people they are not attracted to. I am not going to have sex with an Asian guy based on the philosophy of multicultural inclusion just to improve the Asian mans' self-esteem. I don't sleep with men out of pity. I can see how you might infer that that's our position from what's written on the campaign web page, but that's not what we're saying. That you can get here from there reinforces an opinion that's been slowly forming in my head that the page needs an update to include more of the points of view on this list and broader argument about racism in sexual life and the gay community.

A fact that I think your post neatly illustrates.

Anyone else care to hop in for a go?

Regards

Tim

(October 2005)

A feature article in the Georgia Straight, Vancouver’s weekly entertainment newspaper, by Craig Takeuchi:

Personal-ad activists won’t swallow racism (Aug 2006)

It was always cool to see how the campaign spread worldwide. This article appeared in a newspaper in Vancouver, Canada, but an interesting point to note that it wasn’t a gay and lesbian specific publication – so the arguments were being heard by a broader audience.